Wolves

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
I have recently been reading about wolves, having developed an interest in them, but well learning more about their behaviour and communication skills, I still don't know a whole lot about their significance in mythologies and legends. I realize that they often represent evil and the devil, but I am sure that there is more to it than that. Any input on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
 

Rhonda Tharp

Active Member
This is more along the lines of the metaphorical... Florence + the Machine's song "Howl"
"Howl"

If you could only see the beast you've made of me
I held it in but now it seems you've set it running free
Screaming in the dark, I howl when we're apart
drag my teeth across your chest to taste your beating heart

My fingers claw your skin, try to tear my way in
You are the moon that breaks the night for which I have to howl
My fingers claw your skin, try to tear my way in
You are the moon that breaks the night for which I have to

Howl, howl
Howl, howl

Now there's no holding back, I'm making to attack
My blood is singing with your voice, I want to pour it out
The saints can't help me now, the ropes have been unbound
I hunt for you with bloody feet across the hallow'd ground

like some child possessed, the beast howls in my veins
I want to find you tear out all your tenderness

And howl, howl
Howl, howl

Be careful of the curse that falls on young lovers
Starts so soft and sweet and turns them to hunters
Hunters, hunters, hunters
Hunters, hunters, hunters

The fabric of your flesh, pure as a wedding dress
Until I wrap myself inside your arms I cannot rest
The saints can't help me now, the ropes have been unbound
I hunt for you with bloodied feet across the hallow'd ground

And howl

Be careful of the curse that falls on young lovers
Starts so soft and sweet and turns them to hunters
A man who's pure of heart and says his prayers by night
May still become a wolf when the autumn moon is bright

If you could only see the beast you've made of me
I held it in but now it seems you've set it running free
The saints can't help me now, the ropes have been unbound
I hunt for you with bloody feet across the hallow'd ground

Eerie damn song!
 

Arachne

Member
Wolves play different cultural roles around the world. In America, both in Native cultures and amongst historic white populations, wolves, though respected and sometimes feared, did not bring about the same horror and loathing they earned in Europe.

In ancient and medieval times, Europe had an enormous population of wolves; large packs literally invaded Paris during a bad winter on one occasion, devouring dozens of people. Unlike wolves in America, which seldom attack and virtually never eat humans, European wolves came to regard humans as meals, and were persecuted accordingly.

Likely myths of werewolves grew out of these attacks; particularly large or nasty wolves, or ones that acquired a particular taste for human, were immortalized as werewolves in their area.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
Anyone have any idea how werewolves have become associated with vampires? I mean, other than the biting, they don't really have anything in common. And obviuosly they're both supernatural. They just seem to crop up in many a story together.
 

venustrap

New Member
Wolves are also a common theme in women-focused myths and storytelling. They are meant to represent strength, leadership, tenacity, strategy, and survival. Look into "Women Who Run With the Wolves." Fabulous book with everything you are looking for. :)
 

Nadai

Active Member
Wolves are also a common theme in women-focused myths and storytelling. They are meant to represent strength, leadership, tenacity, strategy, and survival. Look into "Women Who Run With the Wolves." Fabulous book with everything you are looking for. :)
The book looks very interesting! I like the idea that women could share a psychic bond and that there are so many stories from different cultures that all point to the same ideas.
 

Allie-Gator

Member
I love the song! I have a lot of respect for wolves. Their pack culture is awesome. The Alphas in the pack are the King and Queen and get the first of everything. They eat first, they reproduce first and they get the choice dens.
 

Insights

New Member
Anyone have any idea how werewolves have become associated with vampires? I mean, other than the biting, they don't really have anything in common. And obviuosly they're both supernatural. They just seem to crop up in many a story together.
In the book 'Haunted Land' by Paul Devereux he explains in the Channel Island of Guernsey, the werewolf is known as 'varou', which originates in German term, Varulf (werewolf), via the Breton 'varw', that relates to both wolves and the dead. That is the closest explanation I can find so far. It's still a little unclear, though.
 

Nadai

Active Member
Anyone have any idea how werewolves have become associated with vampires? I mean, other than the biting, they don't really have anything in common. And obviuosly they're both supernatural. They just seem to crop up in many a story together.

I wish I could remember where I heard that werewolves were supposed to be the guardians of vampires. Because vampires can't go out during the day they needed someone to protect them while they slept so they...created maybe or hired...werewolves to be their "watchdogs".
Perhaps that could be one legend that led to people always showing the two together, though I suppose that most werewolf/vampire stories show them feuding more than cohabitating.
 

fibi ducks

Active Member
i think one of my books said that both vampires ans werewolves were possible results of botching a funeral service. i'll have a look when i find that book.
Also i there was something about how shepherds related to wolves - again I'll have a look.
Finally I've been coming across a few references to Apollo the wolf god. can't say any more though.
 
Anyone have any idea how werewolves have become associated with vampires? I mean, other than the biting, they don't really have anything in common. And obviuosly they're both supernatural. They just seem to crop up in many a story together.
I'm not sure where this started. Of course, in Bram Stoker's book, a wolf was one of the forms that Dracula could take, and it seems like he was able to control wolves and dogs in general.
 

Nadai

Active Member
I'm not sure where this started. Of course, in Bram Stoker's book, a wolf was one of the forms that Dracula could take, and it seems like he was able to control wolves and dogs in general.
I thought Dracula was afraid of werewolves. Wasn't it in...Van Helsing I think...that Hugh Jackman became a werewolf so that he could stop...whoever played Dracula. Didn't look like he was controlling him too well while his throat was being ripped out.
Is that just another version of the legend or could it just be inconsistencies within the same legend?
 
I thought Dracula was afraid of werewolves. Wasn't it in...Van Helsing I think...that Hugh Jackman became a werewolf so that he could stop...whoever played Dracula. Didn't look like he was controlling him too well while his throat was being ripped out.
Is that just another version of the legend or could it just be inconsistencies within the same legend?
I haven't watched that movie in quite a while.

My point is that the the vampire/werewolf antipathy (take for instance, the Underworld and Twilight films) seems a recent phenomenon; that in the legends, the two seem to have barely a passing acquaintanceship. I'm not sure why the two seem inseparable in modern media.
 

Nadai

Active Member
I haven't watched that movie in quite a while.

My point is that the the vampire/werewolf antipathy (take for instance, the Underworld and Twilight films) seems a recent phenomenon; that in the legends, the two seem to have barely a passing acquaintanceship. I'm not sure why the two seem inseparable in modern media.
Yes, that part I understood. I was looking for the connection between the legend of Dracula's ability to change into and control werewolves and the legend wherein he can only be killed by a werewolf.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
Yes, that part I understood. I was looking for the connection between the legend of Dracula's ability to change into and control werewolves and the legend wherein he can only be killed by a werewolf.
I've never of that legend. (Dracula only able to be killed by a werewolf, that is.)
 

Nadai

Active Member
I've never of that legend. (Dracula only able to be killed by a werewolf, that is.)
It was in the movie Van Helsing. I'd never heard of Dracula being able to control or change into werewolves, that's why I was looking for the connection between the two:confused:
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
It was in the movie Van Helsing. I'd never heard of Dracula being able to control or change into werewolves, that's why I was looking for the connection between the two:confused:
I saw Van Helsing and was not too impressed by it. I'm not sure I'd necessarily take anything from that sort of movie, or any Hollywood movie really, as any kind of fact. I only mean that they seem to pick and choose from their research, and seem to disregard anything that could possibly mangle their precious story line, so the facts are twisted if not just taken and thrown out the window.:rolleyes:
 
Interesting discussion. I don't remember much of that movie, it's been quite a while since I saw it. I would be interested in the origin of the werewolf/vampire connection.
 
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