Welsh myth of rhiannon, pwyll and pryderi

Rhonda Tharp

Active Member
Anyone familiar with this story?

I know that Rhiannon and Pwyll married and had Pryderi. Pryderi was kidnapped while his mother slept, and because the hand maids did not want to be blamed for the child's absence, they smeared puppy blood on Rhiannon's face and hands to make it look like she ate her child. (disturbing) When she awoke, Rhiannon was startled to find her son gone, that she was blamed for his death, and her punishment would be to turn into a horse and carry any new guest of their town on her back while she confessed her crime to them. After 7 years, a shephard who had found Pryderi, and raised him, brought him back to Rhiannon's town. After her son was brought back, Rhiannon was able to shapeshift from human, to horse, and in some stories to bird. I've also heard that Pwyll is the God of the Underworld... not for sure though.

That's all I know. Anyone know what the motive was for taking the child? Who took the child? And how did the shephard end up with child? Curious...
 

Talaria

Member
I just looked it up in my Mythology books and I can't find the motive anywhere. Only that Gwawl's, the man Rhiannon was promised to first but she denied, father put a curse on her and made her suffer for a long time there after. Maybe this so called curse was why the baby was stolen. Streak of bad luck.
 

Rhonda Tharp

Active Member
Someone reminded me a couple of years ago that Fleetwood Mac sang a song about Rhiannon:

Rhiannon rings like a bell through the night and
Wouldn't you love to love her?
Takes to the sky like a bird in flight and
Who will be her lover?

All your life you've never seen
A woman taken by the wind
Would you stay if she promised you heaven?
Will you ever win?

She is like a cat in the dark and then
She is the darkness
She rules her life like a fine skylark and when
The sky is starless

All your life you've never seen
A woman taken by the wind
Would you stay if she promised you heaven?
Will you ever win?
Will you ever win?

Rhiannon
Rhiannon
Rhiannon
Rhiannon

She rings like a bell through the night and
Wouldn't you love to love her?
She rules her life like a bird in flight and
Who will be her lover?

All your life you've never seen
A woman taken by the wind
Would you stay if she promised you heaven?
Will you ever win?
Will you ever win?

Rhiannon
Rhiannon
Rhiannon

Taken by
Taken by the sky

Taken by
Taken by the sky

Taken by
Taken by the sky

Dreams unwind
Loves a state of mind

Dreams unwind
Loves a state of mind

Dreams unwind
Loves a state of mind...
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Anyone familiar with this story?

I know that Rhiannon and Pwyll married and had Pryderi. Pryderi was kidnapped while his mother slept, and because the hand maids did not want to be blamed for the child's absence, they smeared puppy blood on Rhiannon's face and hands to make it look like she ate her child. (disturbing) When she awoke, Rhiannon was startled to find her son gone, that she was blamed for his death, and her punishment would be to turn into a horse and carry any new guest of their town on her back while she confessed her crime to them. After 7 years, a shephard who had found Pryderi, and raised him, brought him back to Rhiannon's town. After her son was brought back, Rhiannon was able to shapeshift from human, to horse, and in some stories to bird. I've also heard that Pwyll is the God of the Underworld... not for sure though.

That's all I know. Anyone know what the motive was for taking the child? Who took the child? And how did the shephard end up with child? Curious...
Hi All
I just discovered this site and am very excited. I've been reading myths and legends since 1986 and Celtic myths are my favorite.
Now let's see. Pwyll is definitely associated with the underworld since he ruled it for one year. His son would continue this association: in the fourth branch of the Mabinogi he gives pigs as a gift to Gwydion. Pigs are considered an underworld animal.
Pryderi is part of that tradition of the child who is lost but then found. Think of the story of the Greek myth Demeter and Persephone. It may or may not have something to do with the universal motif of the dying and rebirth of the earth. But I'm just making an educated guess.
Rhiannon does not turn into a horse. She is fitted with a horse's collar and is forced to carry visiters on her back. She is the Welsh version of the Gaulish horse goddess Epona. who is visualized as riding a horse. She is accompanied by birds that sing so powerfully, they can raise the dead and give a sense of time standing still. It is this role that they play in the second branch of the Mabinogi: Branwen , Daughter of Llyr.
The shephard, Tiernan found Pryderi on the threshold of the barn just after he attacked a mysterious claw that was trying to take the newborn colt.
The claw was probably a denizen of the otherworld. The underworld is probably at odds with Rhiannon because Gwawl was cheated out of marrying her. This enmity is revisited in the third branch of the mabinogi.
In a live version of Rhiannon I have on LP Stevie Nicks introduces the song as being about a Welsh witch. It would be more accurate to say that Rhiannon is a Goddess.
I hope I helped a bit.
 

Rhonda Tharp

Active Member
Hi All
The claw was probably a denizen of the otherworld. The underworld is probably at odds with Rhiannon because Gwawl was cheated out of marrying her. This enmity is revisited in the third branch of the mabinogi.
In a live version of Rhiannon I have on LP Stevie Nicks introduces the song as being about a Welsh witch. It would be more accurate to say that Rhiannon is a Goddess.
I hope I helped a bit.
Awesome, that helped a lot. Loved the connection to the Demeter/Persephone myth. I have never read the Mabinogion, but have a copy of it. In regards to the horse's collar, that's fascinating. In the version I read she is able to shape shift from horse to human, and they discussed Epona being the Celt/Gaul version of her. Epona/Rhiannon would visit you in the night in the form of a horse, thus giving us the word "Night-mare."

Thanks for the info!
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Awesome, that helped a lot. Loved the connection to the Demeter/Persephone myth. I have never read the Mabinogion, but have a copy of it. In regards to the horse's collar, that's fascinating. In the version I read she is able to shape shift from horse to human, and they discussed Epona being the Celt/Gaul version of her. Epona/Rhiannon would visit you in the night in the form of a horse, thus giving us the word "Night-mare."

Thanks for the info!
Happy to help.
The Mabinogion is wonderful. My favorite version is the one by Charlette Guest. It is the original translation. Dover has a cheap copy of it in print. A simple straight forward translation is by Jeffrey Gantz (Penguin). It's fine but a little bland. I also have a scholarly illustrated version trans. by Thomas and Gwynn Jones. The illustrations are by Alan Lee who also does alot of Tolkien stuff. There are also modern retellings of the story as well.
Happy reading.
 

Camma

New Member
This is a brillianr thread and it has brought back to me a lot of reading that I did as a young teenager about the Mabinogion. I read Jeffrey Gantz's translation. I shall have to revisit Rhiannon et al.
 

Isis

Member
I hadn't read the Mabinogion directly, just retellings of Rhiannon's story elsewhere. Usually I hear that she was unfairly blamed, but one variation claimed she actually did kill her son. I don't know how they resolved him showing up again though.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
I read both the Lady Guest translation, which is the first one made. Then read the Gwynn and Thomas Jones's. I also took a look at Gantz's. There is something enchanting about Guest's version.
I never heard of a version where Rhiannon actually kills her son. I only know of her appearances in the Mabinogion. I'm sure there are many modern retellings, but I don't know of any versions that are as old as the Mabinogion stories. I'm curious as to where did you find that variation.
 

Goddess2u

Member
I am definitely going to be reading the Mabinogion. Both stories were rather fascinating and I want to see what else is in this book. The illustrated copy must be excellent I am familiar with Tolkien's books and am looking forward to getting started with this.
 

Isis

Member
I wish I could remember! It's been years since I read it; the only reason I remember the story is because I was so surprised to see the variation.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
I am definitely going to be reading the Mabinogion. Both stories were rather fascinating and I want to see what else is in this book. The illustrated copy must be excellent I am familiar with Tolkien's books and am looking forward to getting started with this.
The illustrated copy I have features the work of the artist Alan Lee. He also did alot of work for the Lord of the rings. It is a jewel in my library.
 
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