Just saying hello

Do you think that Western Europe Culture is a lot older than what you were taught in school?

  • No, I believe that the Middle East is the "cradle of Civilization."

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  • I was NOT taught that the Middle East is the "cradle of civilization."

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  • Total voters


New Member
There seems to be a growing interest in ancient culture and as the world modernizes, it seems that we as beings are starting to seek to retain an interest in things that are not just of technology and of amassing personal wealth. I am encountering more and more people who have an interest in something beyond just this sterile technological world and what is being put out in front of us by mass media and commercial interests.

Lately, I have been learning a lot about Northern and Western European beliefs and have discovered that there is a strong connection between what I would call European Heathen beliefs and North American Native Heathen beliefs. I find this fascinating, and I think we may be looking at a possible break through in revealing long lost knowledge concerning these two regions. For so long, we have been told, especially here in the US that the Middle East is the "cradle of civilization" and I have been suspecting that may be in great error. I have been excited to hear about recent discoveries of ancient ruins and tools that are of a Northern Hemisphere origin. I also wonder how could our teachers tell us that the Middle East - Tiger and Eurphrates River area - is the "cradle of civilization" when the regions of China and Japan have had long long histories of civilization.

I look forward to chatting with others and exchanging ideas.
The "cradle of civilization" analogy is badly outdated in academia. If nothing else, Egypt develops nearly alongside Mesopotamia. While the Sumerians are ridiculously ancient and almost tied with Egypt in even traditional time lines, their culture is certainly not some Aryan seed that the old term can connotate.
But still, just how are you defining culture when it comes to western Europe? Are culture and civilization one and the same in this case? How much older are we talking here? You've peaked my interest, devil.


New Member
The "cradle of civilization" analogy is badly outdated in academia. If nothing else, Egypt develops nearly alongside Mesopotamia. While the Sumerians are ridiculously ancient and almost tied with Egypt in even traditional time lines, their culture is certainly not some Aryan seed that the old term can connotate.
But still, just how are you defining culture when it comes to western Europe? Are culture and civilization one and the same in this case? How much older are we talking here? You've peaked my interest, devil.
Curious that you should add the word "devil" to address me. I choose this name because of this odd and perhaps incorrect correlation with a name that means "Bringer of Light" with something that is not considered to be not Light or enlightening at all. I have even heard conversation around that Lucifer was also a name of an old or mythical city that concerned Nordic Mythology, and this is amongst intelligent eccentric types that come from noble houses and well educated backgrounds and not from devil worshiping fools. At some point I would like to throw that one out to the general populace of this forum and see where that goes. I would find it interesting see how the documentation goes concerning the name Lucifer being linked with a devil.

But to address what I understand you to be asking me.... I don't think culture and civilization started in the Middle East. I think that numerous areas of distinct culture and civilization began in different parts of the Earth. For example, I think if the Christians had not been so frightened and violent in their interaction with other religious groups that we would discover that the Northern/Western Europeans had a wealth literature and understanding of how the Earth functioned in our solar system. They had the concept of the world being round and spinning long before the birth of Christ. It also seems that the South American civilizations had a greater understanding than what was commonly taught to us. They have found toy gold airplanes in the ruins down there. Now think about how much stuff the Spanish Conquistadors melted down without a thought as to the artistic value or intellectual promise of an item because they deemed it to be not of their religion and culture and destroyed it. We've lost a lot. And I think this frightened attitude of the Christian faith followers has really caused a great deal of destruction especially when you think about how they became the controllers of the education, wealth, commerce, and leadership within many places throughout the world. I kinda suspect that this whole middle eastern concept as the Cradle of Civilization being a Christian concept in origin.

So I think we have ignored a whole world full of other possibilities. Once again, no one ever talked about how the Chinese cultures were when Egypt was in it's hay day. And I have been wondering why was the continent of North American and Europe so apparently behind in culture and civilization. It seemed odd. It doesn't make sense on a logical level, but we have accepted it all these years, and when someone proposed other ideas they were professionally shunned because it did not match the religious ideology and not because it did not make good professional sense. One cannot use past life recollections as clues to finding solid evidence. the professional would be professional shunned. Not because it would not work, but because it does not follow a religious set of rules. Now perhaps in India, they might be more accepting.

I think something happened to the North American Continent such as a violent volcanic eruption that caused a severe weather problem in Northern/Western Europe and set everything back. And we lost that documentation due to religious behaviors basically brought on by the Christian dogma. Just a personal theory.

Geez, I really do sound like a "devil" at least in Fundi Christian context. :)
Nah, from the beginning I figured you were an Anti-Christ in the sense of Nietzsche, heh. But yeah, the middle Christians were known for conversion or assimilation. Where they weren't successful some groups often resorted to violence and intimidation. Speaking of things one never learns in history class, how about the Prussian Crusades? They makes the Caucasian (another outdated term but more on that later) Christians of the Holy Roman Empire period seem less against just non-Caucasians and paints them in a more complex light since the Prussian Crusades were about converting and subduing the Pagan Prussians in modern northeast Germany and Poland. This pits white christian against white pagan and resulted in a brutal series of war, intimidation and numerous bloody uprisings. Now in this case it isn't so clear cut as to who were the original aggressors, making the history more rich, complex, and lifelike and therefore less suitable for a canonical history class study.
As for prehistory and the "origin" of civilization, the only sources I'm familiar with are older philological texts showing basically the history contained in language. The most popular philological theory puts the roots of Indo-European languages and to a lesser extent culture and music in ancient India. Even in these theories I am far from well versed, though. When it comes to South American lost civilizations, it is obvious they were advanced enough to show that they didn't borrow wholesale from some Aryan civilization. As I see it, the pyramids and the pyramid like structures in the Americas are only similar because both were building with the same physics. It's a structure that just makes sense to build should you want something tall and also wide without the weight of the top being such a weight on the bottom.
Lucifer was known as the morning and evening star. You'll also see incantations in certain christian cults during papal reign that begin with "Satan, Lord of Light", because they saw Lucifer as a hero of wisdom and action against the evil corruption of the papacy. Again, far too complex and reflective of reality to be studied in a canonical history setting. I can see that you're going to be adding some great stuff to this board. I look forward to your contributions.

Oh, and the reason the term Caucasian is terribly outdated is that it refers to a race theory stating that white folks began as "the most beautiful of all races" (coming from the guy who coined the term) in the region of the Caucasus or modern day Georgia and can actually refer the races branching off from it such as . Whether it is true or not is up for some serious debate since Johann Friedrich Blumenbach established his theory in the year 1800 in his work De generis humani varietate nativa and follows the principal of monogenism, meaning that god put humans here as civilized creatures in one place, leading to "expansion" of civilization rather than even a remote chance of cultures developing independently. Besides all this, it is a terribly inaccurate term in even just its modern usage, since in its original context it could mean the peoples of North Africa, The Middle East, Central Asia, and Europe, being the regions into which the theory pushes Caucasian expansion. Wikipedia has some good articles if you want to look into further.


New Member
Speaking of pyramids.... They seem to be finding structures of that kind in Eastern Europe... Serbia or Croatia. There is a whole website dedicated to the discovery. You never see any of this on Yahoo news. And I suspect it is only a matter of time before that they find some in Western Europe as well. There is also a tower structure in central Europe that the Romans referred to as the "old ruin."

And another tantalizing tidbit of information that I have recently come across is that the concept that the North American Native Indian tribes, which are normally thought to have traveled across the Baring Land Bridge, may not agree with that assessment. From what I have heard the tribes on the Eastern part of the continent state that they came from across the ocean and that is where their origin comes from. There was even talk that the tribes on the East Coast share DNA with Europeans. Hmmmm. If Americans had been taught the folklore of the Native tribes, then we would have heard this sooner. This would also mean that people arrived with boats from Europe long long before Columbus stumbled upon those maps he used.

I should probably find the website tot he pyramids and share that on the main part of the forum. I am hoping that I can contribute or inspire lively conversation and most importantly some serious thinking.... ;) Looks like I need to get a cool avatar too.....
How big are these pyramids? I figured the terrain of Eastern Europe is pretty well accounted for. Different folks have been running back and forth in that whole area since World War I. Where could you hide a pyramid in the Balkans?
Link me that stuff! If nothing else it makes for good story telling. Neat.
Have you ever heard anything about layers of glass being found in core samples somewhere in the world? A whack-a-mole theory being a NuCLeaR BLAAST glassed over some part of a desert at some point in pre-history?

-Thanks Satan!


New Member
I am not Satan. That's a completely different person. :D heheh :rolleyes: No, seriously that's a Christian thing to lump anyone they don't like into the roll of the devil. If they could manage it, they would call Thor the devil too. Oh that's right, I have already had that discussion with someone who thinks anything unseen thing they don't understand is a demon sent to tempt you. :confused:

I posted some of the links on a new topic under the history section. I also have heard of another pyramid being within western Europe, but I am not currently allowed to share that data. As for the region being well settled where these pyramids are in Bosnia, yes, there is a town on top of it, or side of it. (There is also another one in the Ukraine, which i just found out about.) To me, that says it's so old that the weather and vegetation already started covering it up when people returned to the location to live. Something must have happened to the people that originally built the structure.

So who's the hot chick that your avatar is holding? Is that the lovely Sif? Or is it a Wagnerian Avatar?
It's 100% Wagnerian, thanks for noticing! It's Odin kissing his favorite Valkyrie daughter Brunhilde goodbye before he encircles her sleeping figure in flame. It's a tearjerker.
Yeah, Satan and Lucifer and are sometimes conflated, kinda like Lucifer and Beelzebub are.
Neat stuff! I'll check out the History Chat posts.