Is there any way to conform celtic and norse mythology?

Dane

New Member
I am a Contemporary Pagan and I wondering about if in some way I can conform the two together, my main concern is a creation myth. -Dane
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Are you trying to form a sort of composite religion?
H.R.Ellis Davidson is an expert on the religions of the north: both Celtic and Norse. Check out her books.
There are overlaps between the two but they are pretty different.
In terms of creation mythology the Scandinavians gave us a myth of cosmic proportions. The giant Ymir was killed and his body was made into the universe.
It is a myth on a grand scale like that of the Greeks.
The Celts, it is said, do not have a creation myth, but more of an evolution myth. As different waves of settlers came to Ireland, they altered the
landscape and invented certain technologies. It was when the humans finally arrived that they found an Ireland that had a certain landscape
and a certain political-social situation.
Both of these creation scenarios can be found in any basic book on Celtic and Norse myths.
I suppose an interesting creation myth can involve: part1-how the universe got its shape (Norse).
Part 11-how after the creation, we became the people that we are today (Celtic).
 

Rhonda Tharp

Active Member
Are you trying to form a sort of composite religion?
H.R.Ellis Davidson is an expert on the religions of the north: both Celtic and Norse. Check out her books.
Part 11-how after the creation, we became the people that we are today (Celtic).
I saw an interesting Irish "creation myth" from Distant Train productions. It showed the Donn/Danu myth as their creation myth. But sadly, you must buy the cd rom to see it. I don't know if this link will work, but they feature the Norse creation myth here.
http://www.bigmyth.com/myths/english/2_norse_full.htm
 

dtango

Member
Part 11-how after the creation, we became the people that we are today (Celtic).
Please allow me to add: After we exterminated both Giants and Formorians.
Isn’t it a bit strange for Giants and Formorians to be the inhabitants of Europe before the advent of gods (Norse) and men (Celtic)?
 

dtango

Member
I haven't heard of Formorians. Could you explain them please?
The Formorians (or Fomorians) are the Celtic counterpart of the Frost Giants of the Norsemen. They were found in Ireland as the Giants were found in Europe by the invading gods or humans. They had sexual relationships with the invaders, fought with them and were defeated by them (exactly as it happened with the Israelites and the Canaan giants).
They appear as mythical beings and as common people as it happens with all Giants or Titans in the traditions of the Greeks, Norsemen, Celts, Northern American Indians or even the Australian Aborigines.

To me, our partly forefathers: the Neanderthals!
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
It is interesting how so many cultures feature giants as the earlier inhabitants of the land. I suppose one reason may be that certain huge beings
were somehow involved in creating items so huge as mountains and valleys. Think of Paul Bunyan's ox Babe sitting all over
Minn. and creating all those lakes!!!
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
The video was interesting. However, Odin had help when creating humans. The gods Loki and Hoenir helped give life to mankind.
Also, I was not familiar with the giant women cursing man with scatchings on Yggdrasil.
However, the Voluspa does mention an ancient wood where Troll women live. They are magical and are always
trying to hurt mankind. Thor is always out hunting them down when he is not doing other things.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
It is interesting how so many cultures feature giants as the earlier inhabitants of the land. I suppose one reason may be that certain huge beings
were somehow involved in creating items so huge as mountains and valleys. Think of Paul Bunyan's ox Babe sitting all over
Minn. and creating all those lakes!!!
I find it interesting how so many lakes can come from the heiney of just one ox. Babe must have put a lot of weight on his hindquarters when he sat down. It may be best not to think too much about it, actually... ;)
 

dtango

Member
I find it interesting how so many lakes can come from the heiney of just one ox. Babe must have put a lot of weight on his hindquarters when he sat down. It may be best not to think too much about it, actually... ;)

Surely you know that every man telling a story that he has been told he adds his own little bit of exaggeration.
If one finds a way to subtract all little exaggerations, will eventually get the original story. I hope you agree to this.

One way to do the subtraction is to have the same myth in various stages of evolution and we do have that -as regards myths about gods and giants- because there are myths recorded in antiquity (4,500 years ago) and the same myths recorded in modern times.

As one goes back in time, following the subtraction of exaggerations, the giants get smaller and smaller until they are found to be of the same size as men and gods. From there on one only has to ask “whys” and insist on answering them in a rational way in order to arrive at the kernel of the myth which is the only one of value.

All myths are covered with fairy-tale layers. Do not let those layers deceive you; myths are not fairy tales!
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member

Surely you know that every man telling a story that he has been told he adds his own little bit of exaggeration.
If one finds a way to subtract all little exaggerations, will eventually get the original story. I hope you agree to this.

One way to do the subtraction is to have the same myth in various stages of evolution and we do have that -as regards myths about gods and giants- because there are myths recorded in antiquity (4,500 years ago) and the same myths recorded in modern times.

As one goes back in time, following the subtraction of exaggerations, the giants get smaller and smaller until they are found to be of the same size as men and gods. From there on one only has to ask “whys” and insist on answering them in a rational way in order to arrive at the kernel of the myth which is the only one of value.

All myths are covered with fairy-tale layers. Do not let those layers deceive you; myths are not fairy tales!
Yes, I agree.
 

chimera

New Member
Hi
Here is a Celtic legend by Parthenius, also from Diodorus 5.24.
XXX. THE STORY OF CELTINE

Hercules, it is told, after he had taken the cattle of Geryone from Erythea, (or Geryon, who was supposed to have lived in Spain - this was one of the twelve labours of Hercules), was wandering through the country of the Celts and came to the house of Bretannus, who had a daughter called Celtine. Celtine fell in love with Hercules and hid away the cattle, refusing to give them back to him unless he would first content her. Hercules was indeed very anxious to bring the cattle safe home, but he was far more struck by the girl’s exceeding beauty, and consented to her wishes; and then, when the time had come round, a son called Celtus was born to them, from whom the Celtic race derived their name.
---------
The reason for the bargaining was that she was a snake-woman, the Echidna, like the snake-woman of the similar Scythian legend. Maybe old Hercules had a quick glass of wine or two to build his strength.
 

chimera

New Member
Ths snake woman of Celts and Scythians is an example of Celtic : German connection with the Indo European Vedic texts. Rig Veda describes Dana river goddess and her sons Indra and Vritra snake man. Indra was a main god in Hindu Cambodia, and Indonesia where Danu has 2 temples. There were kings named Indravarman who had a legend of descent from Naga snake king. The naga snake-women of India are illustrated as a woman with snake body, just as in Russian art.
The word "danu" as "bountiful waters" is the origin of the names Dniester, Dnieper, Don and Danube rivers, and probably Danann people of Ireland.- John Koch. U Wales. The Scythian snake woman was from the Dnieper /danu "river". Vritra had 3 heads, like Geryon of the Celts, and both prevented people from having cattle and were defeated by a war god, Indra /Hercules.
Danu was wife of Tvashtar, father of humanity, with grandsons Yama and Ymir, and Manu who created people.
Tuisto the father of Germans had sons Ymir and Mannus._ Tacitus "Annals and Histories".
The river woman who took cattle resembles the spirit-woman of the sacred pool of the Boyne ("cow" river) who took cattle from a man who wrongly took them to drink, and the river carried the cattle away.
Celts and Germans thus had a common Indo European tradition with the horse tribes of west Asia, and the Hindu kingdoms of SE Asia. (The last king was killed by the Dutch army in Indonesia in 1906).
 

chimera

New Member
The Vedic "Tvashtar" (and so probably Germanic 'Tuisto") means "heavenly builder".
The word "Britain" seems to derive from "pryttani" meaning "makers. workers of materials".
cruth :
form, figure, Old Irish cruth, Welsh pryd, *qr@.tu-s, root qer, make; Latin cerus, creator, creo, English create; Lithuanian kuriù, build; Sanskrit kar, make, kr@.tas, made. _ McBain Gaelic Dictionary.
The word is used for "SansKRIT" the "well formed writing".
It is possible that tvashtar/ tuisto in Celtic terms was a "*cruthos. pryddos" connecting the heavenly maker with the Celtic people.
 

chimera

New Member
The Urumchi ones are even compared with a specific place in Austria.
"Furthermore, the textiles from at least one of these Inner Asian sites look astonishingly like the peculiar plaid twill cloths found in the only place in Europe where ancient perishables have survived well, the Bronze Age salt mines at Hallstatt and Hallein, in the Alps above Salzburg in Upper Austria. The Austrian plaid twills had been woven by ancestors of the Celts, another Indo-European group linguistically related to the Tokharians . The parallelism of the language and textile links forms another strange tie between the Central Asian mummies and the West. What, if anything, might the prehistoric Celts have had to do with Chinese Turkestan? "
 
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