Great mother

dtango

Member
To me, the original “fund of mythological motifs” –as Campbell calls it- out of which every culture’s mythology sprang, is anchored in history.
I have done some research and here are the results:

Figurines of the Great Mother (or Mother Goddess) are known to have been produced as early as 40,000 years ago.
The fact that those figurines (known as Venus figurines) depict the Mother who according to mythology gave birth to gods and men, is confirmed by a description of the Mother (also called “Cow,” “Wild Cow” or “Sacred Cow”) found in the Pyramid Texts, the oldest texts of humanity. The description matches the depiction of the Mother in the statuettes because the “Mother” was a particular woman and not just any woman capable of bearing children. She had a particular figure –exceptionally obese- and was treated in a particular way which most probably led to her acquiring that particular figure.

Venus figurines have been produced for 40,000 years and although the oldest texts available were written only 4,500 years ago the myths and legends accompanying the practice of sculpting her figure and perpetuating her worship had a chance to be recorded. Thus, according to the story narrated in the archaic texts, the Mother was revered by her children not as the mother who gave birth to them, but as her who provided them with the physical attributes necessary for survival.

All Mother’s children were subject to the test of judgment effected by those fathering her children; the gods. Some children would be found to be “sons of god” and therefore gods themselves, some would be accepted as “sons of man,“ suitable to serve the gods as their slaves and some would be rejected as primitive savages and would be exterminated. Accordingly, the Mother herself was regarded either as ”Mother of gods” or as just an indifferent common mother.

Those worshipping the Mother were those who survived the ordeal of judgment, those who were borne by the “God bearing Mother” and therefore this one was the mother they revered and were proud of having been borne by, not the common mother. The common mother’s children were gone; dead, incapable of worshipping.

The “Venus figurines” are indeed Venus figurines! To call them “fertility idols” it only indicates lack of serious involvement with the particular subject.
For those interested there is an article of a 45-page study entitled Great Mother (Part I) in a pdf file.

The story of the Mother is the foundation on which the extremely racist attitude of mythology is based: the mother belongs to an inferior primitive race while the father, the god, belongs to a superior civilized race. The offspring may belong to the race of the father, the mother, or anywhere between the two. “Katharmos,” the deadly symptom of racism, demanded that the non-pure, the non-god, be expelled or exterminated. The Diaspora of the human kind begun at approximately 60,000 years ago and was completed a few hundred years ago when the last of the persecuted non-pure ones arrived at the remotest and loneliest place of the earth: the Easter Island.

Myths about gods are considered fairy tales and are treated in the same way myths about mermaids are treated because on the one hand what evidence confirming the historicity of the myths there is cannot be recognized for what it is, and on the other hand a great part of the evidence lies on the bottom of the sea. When, 15,000 thousand years ago, sea level was 100 meters lower than its present level the Nile river delta was by approximately fifty kilometers longer and close to 10,000 square kilometers of today’s sea area was dry land.

The myth of imperfect creation is found on both sides of the Atlantic: gods were killing one generation of humans after the other in their attempt to have the sort of people they wanted. According to the Mother’s story, however, they were not killing entire generations. They simply kept killing for thousands of years those children of the Mother they deemed unsuitable for use.

The above is a theory hated by both theists and atheists. Theists would never accept that their sacred supernatural deities are fake and atheists would never accept the existence of any sort of gods.
To my opinion Academia has been so far pleasing both by remaining silent!
 

Rhonda Tharp

Active Member
Interesting post. Have you read Pandora's Seed? Clan of the Cave Bear? Marija Gimbutas? Just curious...
I'm taking a history class this semester, and I have to write a paper on Jung's Mother Archetype theory and apply it to the Vestal Virgins. Besides Jung's books, do you have any other suggested readings?
 

RLynn

Active Member
You have unleashed a torrent of interesting material, dtango. I'm having a hard time getting my head around it all. I am interested in the mythology of the Mother, especially within the context of Gnosticism, Kaballah, and Catholicism.
 

dtango

Member
Interesting post. Have you read Pandora's Seed? Clan of the Cave Bear? Marija Gimbutas? Just curious...
I'm taking a history class this semester, and I have to write a paper on Jung's Mother Archetype theory and apply it to the Vestal Virgins. Besides Jung's books, do you have any other suggested readings?
I’ve read Gimbutas, whom I like very much, and Jung, whom I heartily dislike, but not the other books.

I can tell you what I know of the Vestal Virgins and you will decide if it is possible to apply to them Jung's Mother Archetype theory.

The Greek “Vestal Virgins” were called “Άρκτοι” (Arkti) and they had to go and serve goddess Artemis (Diana) at an early age as the Roman girls had. That was, however, the form of the particular custom as it had developed by the time its practice was recorded. Earlier forms can be found in the myths: Danae, who was buried in a subterranean room in order to remain virgin and see not the light of the sun and Persephone, who was abducted and taken down to the dark Underworld.

The custom of confining young girls in dark places known as “Dark Houses” for periods of from a few days to up to seven years is known from all over the world. To confirm this fact you need J.G.Frazer’s “The Golden Bough,” which, if you do not have, can download from:
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/Sir_James_Frazer_-_The_Golden_Bough.pdf

Read paragraphs 3 and 4 of Chapter 60

LX. Between Heaven and Earth
3. The Seclusion of Girls at Puberty
4. Reasons for the Seclusion of Girls at Puberty

The reasons that Frazer gives for the inhuman treatment of the girls are very naïve.
Here is an example:

Amongst the civilised nations of Europe the superstitions which cluster round this
mysterious aspect of woman’s nature are not less extravagant than those which prevail among savages. In the oldest existing cyclopaedia—the Natural History of Pliny—the list of dangers apprehended from menstruation is longer than any furnished by mere barbarians.
According to Pliny, the touch of a menstruous woman turned wine to vinegar, blighted crops, killed seedlings, blasted gardens, brought down the fruit from trees, dimmed mirrors, blunted razors, rusted iron and brass (especially at the waning of the moon), killed bees, or at least drove them from their hives, caused mares to miscarry, and so forth.
Similarly, in various parts of Europe, it is still believed that if a woman in her courses
enters a brewery the beer will turn sour; if she touches beer, wine, vinegar, or milk, it will go bad; if she makes jam, it will not keep; if she mounts a mare, it will miscarry; if she touches buds, they will wither; if she climbs a cherry tree, it will die. In Brunswick people think that if a menstruous woman assists at the killing of a pig, the pork will putrefy. In the Greek island of Calymnos a woman at such times may not go to the well to draw water, nor cross a running stream, nor enter the sea. Her presence in a boat is said to raise storms.

Thus the object of secluding women at menstruation is to neutralise the dangerous
influences which are supposed to emanate from them at such times. That the danger is believed to be especially great at the first menstruation appears from the unusual
precautions taken to isolate girls at this crisis.

He offers no explanation as to why the first menstruation was considered so dangerous because he failed to realize that the seclusion aimed in preventing unwanted pregnancy of a little but capable of being a mother girl.
It seems that young girls were originally confined in closed, dark places (most probably caves) in order to remain virgins until impregnated by a member of the pure race, a god. The child produced should be guaranteed fathered by the proper male. If doubts existed the child was killed.
The so-called firstborns were killed until recently (Read the first paragraphs of XXVII. Succession to the Soul) but obviously they were not the actual firstborns of their mothers. Apart from the young girls who were virgins, older women who had been abducted were also used in the production of... sons and slaves of the gods. Not knowing whether the women abducted were already with child, the first child to be born in captivity was obviously considered useless and killed.

Once an inhuman practice becomes a cultural custom people loose their humanity. Yet, all absurd and inhuman practices do originate in real life and not in the imagination of one man. Culture is memory, as Yuri Lotman said.
 

dtango

Member
You have unleashed a torrent of interesting material, dtango. I'm having a hard time getting my head around it all. I am interested in the mythology of the Mother, especially within the context of Gnosticism, Kaballah, and Catholicism.
I can help you with ancient Egyptian tradition because I have studied the funerary texts, but not with the processed by the philosophers image of the Mother.
To start with, I have to state that Isis is not the Mother because Isis is a pure goddess, belonging to the race of gods, while the Mother is not a goddess by birth (neither Virgin Mary is a pure goddess, nor Venus, or Freya or Ishtar). The Mother in the Egyptian tradition is Nephthys, the sister and wife of the enemy of the gods, Seth.

A passage in Chapter 17 of the Book of the Dead reads:

iwr.n \ =f \ m \ Ast \ bnn.n \ =f \ m \ nbt-Hwt

conceived was \ he \ in \ Isis \ begot was \ he \ in \ Nephthys

the verb “iwr” means “conceive a child”, “become pregnant”
the verb “bnn” (having as determinative sign an erect phallus) means “beget”, “become erect.”

Nephthys is the natural mother and Isis the foster mother. When the man succeeds in the process of judgment he is said to have been born by a true goddess, by Isis. However, everybody knows that it is Nephthys who provides her children with the necessary physical attributes that will allow them to be considered as born by a goddess. And thus, it is the natural mother which is eventually worshipped.
Pure female goddesses in mythology are the product of the imagination of theologians, not of popular tradition.
 

dtango

Member
The following has been transferred here from thread “New to site” because I am about to discuss a matter pertaining to Great Mother.
A friend of mine started a mythology site and is posting discussion information on there....care to look at it and see if there's anything you agree/disagree with?

http://mindsbehindthemyths.org/ [/quote]

Dear Zack, I visited your friend’s site, I left a comment there but she did not like it and had it removed. Of course she replied to me by e-mail but the subject in question must be discussed in public.

It has to do with an article she wrote about goddess Athena. She confined her research to the image of the goddess presented to school kids: the goddess of wisdom!
That image was produced by the philosophers and so the common people in ancient Greece cared about that image in the same degree that they care today about the priestly teachings according to which Virgin Mary does not belong to the holy trinity.
Top deity today in Greece is the Virgin because she took over from Athena.

There is the Medusa myth according to which –as your friend writes: “Medusa was a beautiful woman whom Poseidon raped in Athena’s temple. Athena, angry with Medusa for desecrating her holy place, cursed the attractive woman so that no man would ever look at her again”. A goddess of wisdom cannot be that unfair. Athena is known to have killed and skinned her father when he attempted to rape her and therefore in the original myth the goddess was killing the victimizer rapist god, she was not punishing the innocent victim.

Athena, Artemis and Neith, the goddesses who had armed themselves, were killing in order not to be raped and not to preserve their virginity.
Athena was a mother as Virgin Mary is. Erichthonius was her child fathered by Hephaestus. She was also regarded as the mother of the Amazons (her or Armonia, a Naias).

Whoever involves himself with mythology he ought to have it studied a little bit. Whoever has a little interest in mythology ought to know what the illustrious ancient Greek philosophers did to the Greek tradition; and not be fooled by the fairy tales the philosophers manufactured.
 

RLynn

Active Member
......She confined her research to the image of the goddess presented to school kids: the goddess of wisdom!
That image was produced by the philosophers and so the common people in ancient Greece cared about that image in the same degree that they care today about the priestly teachings according to which Virgin Mary does not belong to the holy trinity.
Top deity today in Greece is the Virgin because she took over from Athena......
Interesting. I never thought much about the disparity between how the common people viewed their gods and the interpretations of the intellectuals. Certainly in Roman Catholicism it is true that many people (in contrast to the official church position) venerate the Virgin Mary to such an extent that she effectively becomes a member of the Christian pantheon. Her position as top deity in Greece is surprising, since the Greek Orthodox religion is thought to be extremely paternalistic (or maybe the reputed paternalism is only Roman Catholic propaganda). Naturally her being Athena's successor carries a lot of weight.
 

RLynn

Active Member
......Whoever involves himself with mythology he ought to have it studied a little bit. Whoever has a little interest in mythology ought to know what the illustrious ancient Greek philosophers did to the Greek tradition; and not be fooled by the fairy tales the philosophers manufactured.......,
Speaking for myself only (although I hope I'm not alone), I simply just enjoy the stories that I've read or heard about, whether they are from pure folk tradition or have been corrupted by the philosophers. I'm just one of the common folk. The scholarly study of mythology is a different ball game.
 

dtango

Member
Her position as top deity in Greece is surprising, since the Greek Orthodox religion is thought to be extremely paternalistic (or maybe the reputed paternalism is only Roman Catholic propaganda).
I would dare say that the old enmity between gods and Titans (or Giants, in the Norse mythology) was never quite forgotten.
Aeschylus wrote:

εμοί δε μήτηρ ουχ άπαξ μόνον Θέμις
και Γαία, πολλών ονομάτων μορφή μία... (Prometheus Bound, verses 221-2)

Often, my mother, Themis
and Gaia, one form called by many names….

All goddesses are different aspect of the Mother. The Mother being the goddess of Love, the sexual partner of the gods: Venus!

Venus is not a goddess, she is Titaness. Her father was Uranus, the father of the Titans who are the ones who then gave birth to gods. Titans or Giants were the enemies of the gods and thus the god-loving representatives of the gods, the clergy (aka Angels :)) do not like Athena, Venus or Virgin Mary.

The stories of the myths are interesting and entertaining, but since it is the final stage in their evolution that is known, they are deceptive because they conceal the real image of the gods.
The gods were the bad guys !!
 
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