Atlas myth

darksoda

New Member
Hey people i got a doubt of atlas myth so lets go, atlas after the titans war agains the olimpians was doomed to hold the skies over his shoulders(really the sky, the Earth is invented version i already search this) anyway he work was hold the skies (Uranus) to Uranos don't make the primordial embrace with Gaia the Earth, because this primordial embrace generate the titans, my doubt is Uranos was Castrated by Cronos so he can't make sex so is not like pointless Atlas hold the skies??? thanks for future anwers.
 
Last edited:

darksoda

New Member
if is confuse this topic please let me know, thanks :) and i really think this history of mytology don't make sense at all :)
 

Nadai

Active Member
Atlas was the Titan god of Endurance. There are a couple of myths surrounding Atlas and his task of holding up the heavens.

In the first myth, Atlas led the Titans in a rebellion against Zeus. When the Titans lost, Atlas was sentenced to hold the heavens on his shoulders for eternity. The second myth states that Atlas was commissioned by Zeus to, as the guardian of the pillars, hold the, up to separate the earth and sky. Aside from holding up the heavens, Atlas was responsible for teaching humans astronomy (...astrology?) He taught sailors how to read the stars to chart their journeys and farmers how to look to the starts to measure the changing of the seasons.
In one myth, Herakles went to Atlas during his quest for the Golden Apples. Atlas tricked Herakles into holding up the heavens for a time.
There are a few interpretations to the myth of Atlas and his responsibilities, not just why he holds the pillars but, also, what the pillars actually are. Some myths say that the pillars were mountains located within the earth goddess herself while other myths state that Atlas actually holds the earth in the sky and keeps it from being lost in the heavens.
These ideas are meant, I believe, to be figurative. Yes it's true that there are specific gods meant to personify specific things like Gaia being mother earth and Apollo being the sun god, but Apollo also drives the sun chariot so he can't possibly be both. I don't know if ancient Greeks actually believed that Atlas was in the sky holding up the earth or inside of the earth holding up the mountains and separating them from the sky. I mean Hades was the god of the underworld which was supposed to be located within the earth but Gaia is the goddess of the earth so essential that would mean that Hades and all of the souls he'd gathered lived inside of Gaia. Same with Uranus, he's the sky god, but I don't know if he was actually the sky. All of the gods, I believe, had corporeal, humanoid, bodies. Except maybe Kaos. I know that in the beginning when there was just Kaos, everything was formless so I don't imagine that Kaos himself would have had a form. It is a head scratcher, though. I'm pretty sure that stuff like that is meant to be taken figuratively not literally. I think back then people just chose not to examine things like that too closely. One of the main reasons I like Ovid so much is because he did examine things like that. Inconsistencies. You get them in every religion, I'm sure.
 
Last edited:

darksoda

New Member
thanks for the answers :) about gaia being connect to hades i have no ideia :), still i think i found a error in the uranus history i guess if he is castrated he can not make more sons with gaia,just if he can make some other way to related with gaia.
 

Nadai

Active Member
Sorry I forgot to go into Uranus.

Ouranos was the god of the sky. Ouranos (Sky) and Gaia (Earth) had 18 kids: the Titans, the Cyclopes, and the Hekatonkheires which were locked away inside of the earth (or inside of Earth herself). The goddess asked her sons to rebel against their father. Four of them went to the four corners of the earth (Gaia herself) to wait for Ouranos to come to her. The fifth son Cronus, waited in the center of the earth (Gaia) for Ouranos to lie with Gaia. When Ouranos went to her, Cronus castrated him.

*As a side note: If we consider Gaia to be the literal earth and Ouranos to be the literal sky then basically Ouranos trapped his children inside of Earth's belly which would have been incredibly uncomfortable for her, painful. She asked her children to rebel against their father. They took up positions at the four corners of Gaia (maybe front, back, head, and feet?) while Cronus waited at her center which I can only take to mean the center of her womb. When Sky entered Earth Cronus would have been waiting at her center for Sky to enter her and he castrated him.*

Anyways, Ouranos' blood fell and drenched Earth (his seed I guess you could take it to mean since it was the blood from his penis and, if we're taking this literally, he would have drenched Earth's womb with his blood and sperm) and from that blood was born the Giants and Erinyes. When Cronus rose to power Ouranos told his son that the Titans would be overthrown in the same way that he was. Not long after, Cronus did the same thing his father did and was dispatched in the same way. Though he created and led the Golden Age before that happened. Unfortunately for him and us he was cursed to follow in his father's footsteps.

I don't think that Ouranos produced anymore kids after that. But Ouranos had Cronus before he was castrated, it was Cronus himself (a Titan) that castrated him.
 

darksoda

New Member
thanks for the answer :) atlas have to hold the skies after urano castration so this don't make sense but in wikipedia said too that if atlas hold the skies something of axis of Earth will work too.
 

Nadai

Active Member
Yeah I don't really trust Wikipedia for answers concerning Greek Myth. When I was taking Classical Myth as a junior in college I remember my professor actually taking a day going through a bunch of failing papers from past students who'd taken information from non-reputable websites like Wikipedia. One website I found at the time to always be helpful was www.theoi.com it's all full of information concerning myths and what books those myths can be found in. What poet said what in whichever book.

It was Zeus who ordered Atlas to hold up the sky so, yes, it would have been after Ouranos' castration, Zeus wasn't born until after the fact. But you have to understand that these were myths that people accepted as a way of explaining the world in a time where there wasn't actually a way of knowing how the world was created or how it moved or the fact that we moved around the sun rather than the sun moving across the sky every day. All myths were taken as learning tools. They were a way to teach us right from wrong. Respect the gods or they'll turn you into a wolf and flood the earth. Don't be boastful or they'll take everything away from you. Don't have sex with your parents or your siblings or you'll be disgraced and die. Don't aim higher than your reach or you'll burn up in the sun. Myths were teaching tools back then. It was a magical time where stories like those could be accepted as truth because there was no science to disprove it. People were better able to believe in things that could only be felt.
 

darksoda

New Member
thanks again :) the myths really are a way to explain the reality this was undoubtedly but some things are really crazy how the old people explain the things in the past :)
 

Rebirth_Myth

New Member
Atlas had seven sisters, so they must have helped up lift Olympus. The universe created the Uranus and Gaia, and power fell unto and over Zeus and his brothers Zeus is and must be the most respected and responsible. Wasn't schooled on the whole Atlas lifting the heavens. Knew Hercules lifted Olympus but between Hercules and Perseus who is more prolific is another story-- going to start a thread over it.
 

Nadai

Active Member
Atlas had seven sisters, so they must have helped up lift Olympus. The universe created the Uranus and Gaia, and power fell unto and over Zeus and his brothers Zeus is and must be the most respected and responsible. Wasn't schooled on the whole Atlas lifting the heavens. Knew Hercules lifted Olympus but between Hercules and Perseus who is more prolific is another story-- going to start a thread over it.
I think you may be referring to Atlas' daughters, the Pleiades; they were mountain nymphs. Six of them were regular nymphs (Alkyone, Merope, Kelaino, Sterope, Taygete, and Maia) with a corporeal form, but the seventh (Elektra) was invisible. She turned herself invisible out of shame because she had sex with a mortal man. I'm pretty sure also that they were servants or priestesses of Artemis. Five of the daughters were rapped and became the mothers of a few Trojan and Spartan kings. There are three myths, I believe, that tell the fates of the sisters. The first is that they were sought after by the god Orion and while they were fleeing they called out, to either Zeus or their father, for protection. Like so many women being pursued by rapists is ancient Greece, rather than something happening to the man, the nymphs were transformed into stars, the same stars that form the constellation Pleiades. The second is that the sisters were so grief stricken when their sisters, the Hyades, died that they were placed in the heavens to placate them. The third myth is that they were so distraught over the fate of their father Atlas that they moved Zeus to pity and so he placed them in the sky as stars.

I don't know of any myth saying that they help Atlas hold up the sky, but I suppose it's not a far leap.
 

Rebirth_Myth

New Member
Oh, had it wrong on the difference between the lifting the heavens and in doing so Atlas separated the earth from the heavens. Do I got this right? Makes sense that Atlas would be the sky then, some faint recollection that you say he is the sky God, might be wrong on that. I read in a book about astrology called Stars and Planets by oh shoot can't recall but wish I could. It has a picture of the atlas constellation, it is blue so what I am going to infer about myth may be a shot in the dark sort of. If Atlas lifts the heavens and the world is full of mankind who by one myth rose from the ashes of titans that was defeated by Zeus with one Boanerger and Atlas has seven sisters and this Gaia or this earth has seven planets in the solar system then this world does or at least used to lift Uranus or the heavens. Mythological if you ask me.
 

Nadai

Active Member
Zeus is and must be the most respected and responsible.
Don't know that I agree with that. Zeus responsible. He was constantly seen acting on impulse. Something shiny would catch his eye and he'd drop everything and go after it no matter the consequences. I don't even consider Zeus to have been all that powerful. He wouldn't even have been able to defeat the Titans had he not had help. He had to swallow Athena's mother Metis just to have even a bit of wisdom and that didn't even serve him all that well. When the Ancient Greeks drew up their idea of Zeus they certainly gave him a plethora of character flaws.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
Sorry I forgot to go into Uranus.
Ugh!

To clear up your confusion of Apollo as both sun god and driver of the chariot, the answer is simply he's not the sun god. Helios is the sun god well Apollo is god of archery, music, dance, and light among many other things. He does drive the sun chariot, but does represent the sun. But becuase he is the god of light, he is also known as Phoebus.

Yeah I don't really trust Wikipedia for answers concerning Greek Myth. When I was taking Classical Myth as a junior in college I remember my professor actually taking a day going through a bunch of failing papers from past students who'd taken information from non-reputable websites like Wikipedia. One website I found at the time to always be helpful was www.theoi.com it's all full of information concerning myths and what books those myths can be found in. What poet said what in whichever book.
I trust Wikipedia to have good information on pretty much anything, but I think it's a good idea to always to check the references. Some people seem to like to screw around with the articles. Of course, if there are no references, then disregard it. That's my rule. The internet is always iffy at my best as a source of information. For research purposes, books are the best way to go.

Don't know that I agree with that. Zeus responsible. He was constantly seen acting on impulse. Something shiny would catch his eye and he'd drop everything and go after it no matter the consequences. I don't even consider Zeus to have been all that powerful. He wouldn't even have been able to defeat the Titans had he not had help. He had to swallow Athena's mother Metis just to have even a bit of wisdom and that didn't even serve him all that well. When the Ancient Greeks drew up their idea of Zeus they certainly gave him a plethora of character flaws.
And, he was as bad as Orion attempting to rape the poor Pleiades. Worse, since there are numerous stories of him going after one woman or another, successfully getting into their pants. Also, by effect, he is unfaithful to Hera, his wife (and sister). No wonder she's bitter.

E. M.
 

Nadai

Active Member
To clear up your confusion of Apollo as both sun god and driver of the chariot, the answer is simply he's not the sun god. Helios is the sun god well Apollo is god of archery, music, dance, and light among many other things. He does drive the sun chariot, but does represent the sun. But becuase he is the god of light, he is also known as Phoebus.
Thanks, Myrddin. Always a fountain of corrective knowledge.

For research purposes, books are the best way to go.
Agreed.

And, he was as bad as Orion attempting to rape the poor Pleiades. Worse, since there are numerous stories of him going after one woman or another, successfully getting into their pants. Also, by effect, he is unfaithful to Hera, his wife (and sister). No wonder she's bitter.

E. M.
What happened with Orion wasn't really his fault. He's one of those gods I take pity on. Orion was actually born when Hermes and Zeus told Aristomachus to pee in a wineskin. Well he did, and he buried it, and however many months later, out popped Orion. Being born from a wineskin, Orion liked the drink and whenever he did it he was moved to acts of stupidity like trying to rape seven Nymphs at a time or challenging Artemis to a hunt. Artemis, though, was moved by Orion's...personality?...and fell in love with him. She actually considered giving up her virgin-goddess status to marry him. When she told her twin brother, though, he got upset and tricked her into shooting him with an arrow. She was pretty distraught when that happened and so she put him in the sky as a star. Right there with the seven women he tried to rape. Apparently Artemis overlooked that detail.
 

Alejandro

Active Member
atlas ... work was hold the skies (Uranus) to Uranos don't make the primordial embrace with Gaia the Earth, because this primordial embrace generate the titans, my doubt is Uranos was Castrated by Cronos so he can't make sex so is not like pointless Atlas hold the skies??? ... i think i found a error in the uranus history i guess if he is castrated he can not make more sons with gaia.
I'm not sure I'm understanding the question/issue correctly: Are you saying that Atlas held up the Sky so that the Sky would be prevented from embracing (having intercourse) with the Earth and thus be unable to produce more Titans? If so, then: No, that is not why Atlas held up the Sky. In fact Atlas did not hold up the entire weight of the Sky: he was just made into the western pillar of the Sky, holding up the western edge of the body of Ouranos [Uranus] at the western end of the Earth, which was believed to be in Morocco. According to Ovid he was eventually metamorphosed into a range of mountains, which would then make him similar to the other pillars of the Sky on the northern, eastern and southern edges of the Earth, which also were mountains.


In one conception of ancient Greek cosmology, the Sky was basically a bowl which fitted over the expanses of the Earth, the Sea and the Okeanos River. The edges of the bowl were what rested on the mountains, one of which mountains was Atlas in Morocco, who in the most ancient times was a Titan who suffered under some (but not all) of the Sky-dome's weight. The middle portions of the bowl/dome were very far away from the Earth's surface, and presumably Ouranos' genitalia would have been somewhere in the middle before they were severed by Kronos. But, as you say, it now wouldn't make a difference if that part of his body was near or far away from the surface since it now no longer possessed the organ(s) necessary for reproduction.

So it is not that there was any need for any one individual to actually hold the Sky up for any part of the universe to work: it was just that that's the punishment which Zeus gave to Atlas for being the wartime general of the Titans in the conflict between Kronos and Zeus. During and before the Titans' War, the Sky still worked just fine without Atlas, and just like on the northern, eastern and southern ends of the world, the Sky's edges rested on the Earth's surface, on the "mountain-pillars" of the Sky. In the west, the pillar was swapped out so that the weight now rested on the tortured body of Atlas.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
What happened with Orion wasn't really his fault. He's one of those gods I take pity on. Orion was actually born when Hermes and Zeus told Aristomachus to pee in a wineskin. Well he did, and he buried it, and however many months later, out popped Orion. Being born from a wineskin, Orion liked the drink and whenever he did it he was moved to acts of stupidity like trying to rape seven Nymphs at a time or challenging Artemis to a hunt. Artemis, though, was moved by Orion's...personality?...and fell in love with him. She actually considered giving up her virgin-goddess status to marry him. When she told her twin brother, though, he got upset and tricked her into shooting him with an arrow. She was pretty distraught when that happened and so she put him in the sky as a star. Right there with the seven women he tried to rape. Apparently Artemis overlooked that detail.
But... he still has a brain doesn't he? He could try to control himself. No one tricked him into trying to rape the poor girls. Really, it was Orion's idea, which makes it his bad.

E. M.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I'm understanding the question/issue correctly: Are you saying that Atlas held up the Sky so that the Sky would be prevented from embracing (having intercourse) with the Earth and thus be unable to produce more Titans? If so, then: No, that is not why Atlas held up the Sky. In fact Atlas did not hold up the entire weight of the Sky: he was just made into the western pillar of the Sky, holding up the western edge of the body of Ouranos [Uranus] at the western end of the Earth, which was believed to be in Morocco. According to Ovid he was eventually metamorphosed into a range of mountains, which would then make him similar to the other pillars of the Sky on the northern, eastern and southern edges of the Earth, which also were mountains.

In one conception of ancient Greek cosmology, the Sky was basically a bowl which fitted over the expanses of the Earth, the Sea and the Okeanos River. The edges of the bowl were what rested on the mountains, one of which mountains was Atlas in Morocco, who in the most ancient times was a Titan who suffered under some (but not all) of the Sky-dome's weight. The middle portions of the bowl/dome were very far away from the Earth's surface, and presumably Ouranos' genitalia would have been somewhere in the middle before they were severed by Kronos. But, as you say, it now wouldn't make a difference if that part of his body was near or far away from the surface since it now no longer possessed the organ(s) necessary for reproduction.

So it is not that there was any need for any one individual to actually hold the Sky up for any part of the universe to work: it was just that that's the punishment which Zeus gave to Atlas for being the wartime general of the Titans in the conflict between Kronos and Zeus. During and before the Titans' War, the Sky still worked just fine without Atlas, and just like on the northern, eastern and southern ends of the world, the Sky's edges rested on the Earth's surface, on the "mountain-pillars" of the Sky. In the west, the pillar was swapped out so that the weight now rested on the tortured body of Atlas.
That's a vast knowledge you've got on the subject there. Thank you for sharing.

E. M.
 

darksoda

New Member
I'm not sure I'm understanding the question/issue correctly: Are you saying that Atlas held up the Sky so that the Sky would be prevented from embracing (having intercourse) with the Earth and thus be unable to produce more Titans? If so, then: No, that is not why Atlas held up the Sky. In fact Atlas did not hold up the entire weight of the Sky: he was just made into the western pillar of the Sky, holding up the western edge of the body of Ouranos [Uranus] at the western end of the Earth, which was believed to be in Morocco. According to Ovid he was eventually metamorphosed into a range of mountains, which would then make him similar to the other pillars of the Sky on the northern, eastern and southern edges of the Earth, which also were mountains.

In one conception of ancient Greek cosmology, the Sky was basically a bowl which fitted over the expanses of the Earth, the Sea and the Okeanos River. The edges of the bowl were what rested on the mountains, one of which mountains was Atlas in Morocco, who in the most ancient times was a Titan who suffered under some (but not all) of the Sky-dome's weight. The middle portions of the bowl/dome were very far away from the Earth's surface, and presumably Ouranos' genitalia would have been somewhere in the middle before they were severed by Kronos. But, as you say, it now wouldn't make a difference if that part of his body was near or far away from the surface since it now no longer possessed the organ(s) necessary for reproduction.

So it is not that there was any need for any one individual to actually hold the Sky up for any part of the universe to work: it was just that that's the punishment which Zeus gave to Atlas for being the wartime general of the Titans in the conflict between Kronos and Zeus. During and before the Titans' War, the Sky still worked just fine without Atlas, and just like on the northern, eastern and southern ends of the world, the Sky's edges rested on the Earth's surface, on the "mountain-pillars" of the Sky. In the west, the pillar was swapped out so that the weight now rested on the tortured body of Atlas.
i really agree with this xD, thanks for the answers people sorry for the delay xD
 
Top