Asatru paganism?

Hello ^_^

Being interested in Norse myths and things, i was just curious, anyone know anything about how the Scandinavians did worship before the Christian conversion? I know a little bit, but i need to get the foundations of it a little more. If anyone knows anything to do with it, id be grateful to hear ^_^

Thanks,
Amy =)
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Hey again Amy!
I am reading a really good book now about Thor. (Thor, from Myth to Marvel).
The author talks a lot about how Thor was worshipped before, during and even after the conversion.
Apparently Thor was the most popular god, especially at Uppsala where Odin and Frey were second to him.
An alter was set up for him. Usually an arm ring was used in which oaths were pledged.
A bowl was also used in which blood was collected from sacrifices.
Blood would be sprinkled on worshippers the same way as priests today sprinkle holy water.
Sometimes humans themselves would be sacrificed. There was a sacred grove to Thor outside the temple where
sacrificial victims would hang.
Check the book out if you can.
Other books that talk about the pagan past of Scandinavia are those written by H.R.Ellis Davidson.
Modern pagans that worship the Viking gods are called Heathens.
Some of these groups feel that you have to be of Scandinavian descent to worship as they do.
Margot Adler's Drawing Down The Moon has a chapter on modern Heathens.
Happy Reading.
 
Hey Joe! ^_^
I must put that book on a growing list of booking that i should read in the near future.
Uppsala's in modern day Sweden, the Finnish side, right?
The blood that was used, do you know who's blood it was? Like animal or human blood?
The sacrificial side of it seems a little chilling, but then i guess many religious groups were into that sort of stuff in older times.
I was reading up about Heathens a few days ago actually, it said that they dont class themselves as neo-pagans, and as a separate branch altogether.
And now more books to add to my list, aha! I'll get round to it eventually.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever read 'Myths of the Pagan North' by Christopher Abram?
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Hey Amy!
I have not read Myths of th pagan North by Abram. But I have read other books like it.
The blood that was used in Thor rituals was that of animals and humans.
It is chilling, but then again, Yahweh of the old Testament LOVED animal sacrifice.
Who knows, maybe human sacrifice was practised also by the ancient Hebrews at one time.
A possible echo of this can be found in the near sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham.
Yes, Uppsala is in Sweden, but I believe it is outside of Finland.
Yes, you are right; Heathens like to think of themselves as outside of neo-paganism.
To me they are pagans, but I don't mean that in any perjorative sense.
Did you ever finish the Prose Edda?
 
Hey Joe =)
Thats a good point actually, with Abraham sacrificing his son. The bible is just as real as the stories of any mythology, so its just as valid. I have no doubt that a few modern day Christian's would try and deny this though.
Id say that they has simular pagans, but they just dont attach themselves to it as much as other modern movements do, for reasons i dont know of yet.
Yes, i finished it on holiday =) It was really good actually, i was going to ask you about the ending of it. Like, with the myth where Aegir and Bragi are talking, and with Otter's Ransom? Like, it continues on for a long time, and it talks about different kings and things. Are these kings real or? Im not sure what truth there is to it, but it seemed it.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Hi Amy
I'm glad you liked the Prose Edda.
Maybe you can start on the Poetic Edda someday.:D
I'm glad you asked about the story of Otter and whther or not the many characters mentioned
were real or not.
There is much literature in Iceland that feature real historical kings, but much of the stories are embellished
and expanded until they become legends.
The story that features Otter is part of the story of the Volsungs, which is the great central legend of the North.
It is like what the Trojan war is to the Greeks.
Snorri gives a brief version of it and it is also featured in the poems of the Poetic Edda
as well as the Volsungasaga. It is also the basis of the Song of the Nibelungs. All of this stuff is what Wagner used when composing his
Ring cycle. (I sat through all fifteen hours when it aired on TV. UUgghh!)
The character of Sigurd may have been a Visigothic king that was murdered in the 6th century. His wife was Brynhilda.
Gunnar is believed to be King Gundarhar, or Gunderharius. He was defeated in a battle against Atilla the Hun in the the late 4th or early 5th century.
After that battle the city of Worms in modern day Germany was destroyed and the Burgundians (Giukings, Nibelungs), moved to
what is today France.
Atli, who Gudrun marries after Sigurd is murdered, is another name for Atilla the Hun.
So historical events did play a key role in the development of these stories after centuries of oral tradition.
Pretty cool stuff don't you think?
 
Hey Joe, sorry for late reply, been a little busy these last few days.
I will defiantly have to read the Poetic Edda at some point in the future, i think im finally getting some understanding of Norse Literature and its importance in the mythology ^_^
I never knew about Wagner, thats pretty cool. 15 hours is such a long time, i bet it was worth it though?
Ah, the Visigoths! I've actually heard of these before. I was just reading it and thought about how relevant it could possibly be to actual history of Scandinavia.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge once more, you know so much about it! =D
 

RLynn

Active Member
......All of this stuff is what Wagner used when composing his
Ring cycle. (I sat through all fifteen hours when it aired on TV. UUgghh!)......
I love Wagner, but I don't think I could stomach 15 hours of the Ring cycle.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
I've never heard of Wagner, or The Ring Cycle. I'd like to learn about this guy and his... show?
 

RLynn

Active Member
I've never heard of Wagner, or The Ring Cycle. I'd like to learn about this guy and his... show?
Richard Wagner was a German composer who wrote operas (which he called music dramas) about mythological and legendary themes. A lot of people find it very tiring to sit through one of his operas, but there are some great instrumental selections which appear frequently in symphony concerts and background music for cartoons. You've probably heard snippets of The Ride of the Valkyries lots of times.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
Richard Wagner was a German composer who wrote operas (which he called music dramas) about mythological and legendary themes. A lot of people find it very tiring to sit through one of his operas, but there are some great instrumental selections which appear frequently in symphony concerts and background music for cartoons. You've probably heard snippets of The Ride of the Valkyries lots of times.
The name doesn't ring a bell. Huh. I'll have to look him up.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
I agree.
There are some great highlights to much of Wagner's Ring cycle.
But I found most of it to be a bit long winded and tiresome.
I actually don't like what he did with the Norse myths.
I know he was sythesizing his own story, so it did not have to be accurate concerning the actual myths, but there are certain
things that really bugged me.
For example, he has the World Tree chopped up and used as firewood around Valhalla.
Yggdrasil is an Axis Mundi, it is more durable than that. It is one of the few things that actually survives Ragnarok.
He also has that hackneyed ending about the next world being ruled by "love alone."
What rubbish! Ironic coming from a man who was such a scoundrel in real life.
He ties many disparate elements of the myths and legends into one huge, sappy, unintentionally funny
epic. Norse mythology is richer than that.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
I read something intersting concerning Bugs Bunny just after I posted the above.
In the book Thor, from Myth to Marvel, it is said that the reason that the animators did that piece was because
at that time lovers of Wagner were depicted as at the top of the cultural elite.
So the episode, which is called What's Up, Opera, was made to poke some fun of this snooty eliticism.
 

RLynn

Active Member
Thanks for the explanation of What's Up, Opera. Nowadays Wagner is not so much in vogue, mainly because of his anti-Semitism. However, I can appreciate his musical genius without liking Wagner the man.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Thanks for the explanation of What's Up, Opera. Nowadays Wagner is not so much in vogue, mainly because of his anti-Semitism. However, I can appreciate his musical genius without liking Wagner the man.
I have to agree. Some of his works are masterful!
I particularly enjoy the song Brunnhild sings before she immolates herself.
I also like Siegried's funeral march. They played it in one of my favorite movies: Excalibur.
 

RLynn

Active Member
I like Siegfried's Horn Call. (Being a French horn player, I'm biased.)
I remember the Siegfried funeral march being used in Excalibur. Very dramatic and ominous music.
That reminds me. I really like Excalibur. In my opinion it is the best John Boorman film and the best of all films about King Arthur. I've seen it three times already. It's about time for another viewing.
 

LegendofJoe

Active Member
Awesome! Another Excalibur fan.
Boorman also uses the Carmina Burana by Orff, another one of my favorites.
Siegried's horn call is used I think in the piece called Siegfried's Journey Down the Rhine.
 

RLynn

Active Member
Awesome! Another Excalibur fan.
Boorman also uses the Carmina Burana by Orff, another one of my favorites.
Siegried's horn call is used I think in the piece called Siegfried's Journey Down the Rhine.
Yes, the short version is from Siegfried's Rhine Journey in Götterdämmerung. The long version is from the second act of Siegfried, in which Siegfried wakes up Fafner the dragon.
I first learned about the Carmina Burana from a buddy in high school, who found a translation of the lyrics. Very bombastic, raunchy stuff. I love it!
 
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